Burdale Tunnel
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Ricgough
Re: Burdale Tunnel
Quite sure the tunnel was protected by an early electronic token system.
Re: Burdale Tunnel
"Quite sure the tunnel was protected by an early electronic token system."
Ric, you have to take my word for it there was no "electronic token system" in those days.The history of signalling is very well documented.The first application of electricity to single line working was Tyer's Tablet Instruments which were introduced in about 1890. I've been interested in railway signalling for about 30 years.I've read endless books and used to have a large collection of signalling equipment.
The line was worked by Staff & ticket - this is the original staff in the NRM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pinzac55/3 ... 807884058/
And there was a system of bell signals from Wharram to Burdale to let each station know when the train had passed through the tunnel safely.I photocopied these signals and passed them on to Matthew recently.
If you're interested in reading up on this there's a fairly decent Wikipedia article on it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token_(railway_signalling)
Ric, you have to take my word for it there was no "electronic token system" in those days.The history of signalling is very well documented.The first application of electricity to single line working was Tyer's Tablet Instruments which were introduced in about 1890. I've been interested in railway signalling for about 30 years.I've read endless books and used to have a large collection of signalling equipment.
The line was worked by Staff & ticket - this is the original staff in the NRM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pinzac55/3 ... 807884058/
And there was a system of bell signals from Wharram to Burdale to let each station know when the train had passed through the tunnel safely.I photocopied these signals and passed them on to Matthew recently.
If you're interested in reading up on this there's a fairly decent Wikipedia article on it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token_(railway_signalling)
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Ricgough
Re: Burdale Tunnel
Relying on hazy memory of the book so decided to re-read.
According to WB p 29
“initially, the MDR like the T+M was worked on the pilot system with the guard acting as pilotman and accompanying every passenger train. But goods trains were not covered by this system. When a goods train shunted off the mainline, the guard of the goods train was to give the driver of the passenger train a written order to proceed. If a goods train was delayed, it was to shunt to allow the passenger train to pass, and the passenger train could not leave until assurance was given, presumably by telegraph that the goods train was clear of the line”.
“....Consequent to this and other delays, the train staff system was instituted in 1862.The line was divided into three sections, with staff stations at Malton, Wharram, sledmere and Driffield. No train could enter a section without the appropriate staff. The progress of trains was telegraphed down the line on departure from Malton or Driffield to other staff stations, and also from Sledmere to Malton for 'up' trains and to Driffield for 'down' trains. By 1870, with the rearrangement of junctions at Malton, Scarborough Road junction became the staff station at the Malton end.
P 57 – 58
“” from the 1930's (track) gangs were reduced to one or two who covered the whole line. To get aboutthey had a 'velocipede' or platelayers trolley. This could be stored off the line at various locations. When it was off the track it was plugged into a socket on a post, and this was interlocked with the signalling system. The flex was only long enough to reach the socket if the velocipede was totally clear of the track. When the platelayers wished to use the velocipede the plug and flex was removed from the socket with the signalmans permission. The electric token, signals and points for that section of line were then locked, thus allowing the velocipede free range of that section of line. When the velocipede was taken off the line at the same or any other stabling point and plugged into the socket, the signals etc. were released. The velocipede was known locally as the 'flying bedstead!' The facility to 'plug' it on and off the line could only have applied with the introduction of Electric Token working in 1933.”
p 58 “ Wharram to Burdale, with the tunnel and its attendant hazards, had been worked by the electric token system since the 2nd January 1919. At each of Wharram and Burdale there was an electric token machine with a number of tokens in each. Only one token could be taken out at any one time and once out locked the signals and points for that section until the token was replaced at the other end. Then a further token could be withdrawn allowing another train to enter the section”.
Also P58
“ Trom 1933 the line was worked by the Electric token system throughout, probably due to the increase in mineral traffic from the quarries. Token stations were Scrborough road, North Grimston, Wharram, Burdale, Sledmere, Wetwang and Driffield West. The tokens were put in a leather pouch attached to an iron hoop,which enabed the signalman and firman to exchange them whilst trains were running into the station or junction. At the same time all the distant signals on the line were permenently fixed to caution to save maintenance”.
So, three methods of operation were used during the life of the line – though none of them explain the huts at either end of the tunnel. Perhaps they were accomodation for maintenance gangs working in the tunnel and surrounding areas? Could they have been charging stations for the veocipede? If we could date them to the 1930's then it is quite possible is it not?
WB doesn't have the answer unfortunately, but if we can date those huts to pre 1933 then we can rule out anything to do woth signalling and anything to do with charging points for the velocipede. If we could date them to 1919 then (although unlikely) is it not possible that they were something to do with protecting the tunnel ?
Would think it is more plausible that they may have been stabling points perhaps.
According to WB p 29
“initially, the MDR like the T+M was worked on the pilot system with the guard acting as pilotman and accompanying every passenger train. But goods trains were not covered by this system. When a goods train shunted off the mainline, the guard of the goods train was to give the driver of the passenger train a written order to proceed. If a goods train was delayed, it was to shunt to allow the passenger train to pass, and the passenger train could not leave until assurance was given, presumably by telegraph that the goods train was clear of the line”.
“....Consequent to this and other delays, the train staff system was instituted in 1862.The line was divided into three sections, with staff stations at Malton, Wharram, sledmere and Driffield. No train could enter a section without the appropriate staff. The progress of trains was telegraphed down the line on departure from Malton or Driffield to other staff stations, and also from Sledmere to Malton for 'up' trains and to Driffield for 'down' trains. By 1870, with the rearrangement of junctions at Malton, Scarborough Road junction became the staff station at the Malton end.
P 57 – 58
“” from the 1930's (track) gangs were reduced to one or two who covered the whole line. To get aboutthey had a 'velocipede' or platelayers trolley. This could be stored off the line at various locations. When it was off the track it was plugged into a socket on a post, and this was interlocked with the signalling system. The flex was only long enough to reach the socket if the velocipede was totally clear of the track. When the platelayers wished to use the velocipede the plug and flex was removed from the socket with the signalmans permission. The electric token, signals and points for that section of line were then locked, thus allowing the velocipede free range of that section of line. When the velocipede was taken off the line at the same or any other stabling point and plugged into the socket, the signals etc. were released. The velocipede was known locally as the 'flying bedstead!' The facility to 'plug' it on and off the line could only have applied with the introduction of Electric Token working in 1933.”
p 58 “ Wharram to Burdale, with the tunnel and its attendant hazards, had been worked by the electric token system since the 2nd January 1919. At each of Wharram and Burdale there was an electric token machine with a number of tokens in each. Only one token could be taken out at any one time and once out locked the signals and points for that section until the token was replaced at the other end. Then a further token could be withdrawn allowing another train to enter the section”.
Also P58
“ Trom 1933 the line was worked by the Electric token system throughout, probably due to the increase in mineral traffic from the quarries. Token stations were Scrborough road, North Grimston, Wharram, Burdale, Sledmere, Wetwang and Driffield West. The tokens were put in a leather pouch attached to an iron hoop,which enabed the signalman and firman to exchange them whilst trains were running into the station or junction. At the same time all the distant signals on the line were permenently fixed to caution to save maintenance”.
So, three methods of operation were used during the life of the line – though none of them explain the huts at either end of the tunnel. Perhaps they were accomodation for maintenance gangs working in the tunnel and surrounding areas? Could they have been charging stations for the veocipede? If we could date them to the 1930's then it is quite possible is it not?
WB doesn't have the answer unfortunately, but if we can date those huts to pre 1933 then we can rule out anything to do woth signalling and anything to do with charging points for the velocipede. If we could date them to 1919 then (although unlikely) is it not possible that they were something to do with protecting the tunnel ?
Would think it is more plausible that they may have been stabling points perhaps.
Re: Burdale Tunnel
"Briefly" WB says that "electric tokens" were used - this is incorrect as Tyer's Number 6 TABLETS were used - they are a completely different thing to TOKENS which look like large brass keys.
Burdale was downgraded from a Signalbox to a Ground Frame in 1927 and the tablet section was altered to Wharram to Sledmere & Fimber and presumably Burdale's Tablet Instruments were reused elsewhere on the line,
The Ganger's Trolley system was entirely separate from the Tablet system in the sense that the Ganger's Keys were not used for Freight or Passenger trains.
As for the huts I have given a reasonable explanation of their use.In architecture, style and appearance they are typical of railway architecture for the area and I see no reason to assume they do not date from the opening of the line or soon after.
Burdale was downgraded from a Signalbox to a Ground Frame in 1927 and the tablet section was altered to Wharram to Sledmere & Fimber and presumably Burdale's Tablet Instruments were reused elsewhere on the line,
The Ganger's Trolley system was entirely separate from the Tablet system in the sense that the Ganger's Keys were not used for Freight or Passenger trains.
As for the huts I have given a reasonable explanation of their use.In architecture, style and appearance they are typical of railway architecture for the area and I see no reason to assume they do not date from the opening of the line or soon after.
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Ricgough
Re: Burdale Tunnel
What, you reckon ganger/storage huts?
Makes sense after re-reading - I think I originally assumed that the 1919 tablet section was for Burdale tunnel itself rather than the whole wharram/burdale section.
Makes sense after re-reading - I think I originally assumed that the 1919 tablet section was for Burdale tunnel itself rather than the whole wharram/burdale section.
Re: Burdale Tunnel
Gangers huts , possibly in the early days with an additional function of storage of batteries for the tunnel telegraph wire. It's worth mentioning that the Leclanche Cell wasn't patented till 1866 so if the cells were used to power the wire it would have been among the earliest uses of them.
Something I didn't mention was that a Signalbox was somewhere that could OFFER or ACCEPT trains and it would be listed in the Appendix together with it's opening hours.I have a list of signalboxes for 1880 somewhere - I'll dig it out and have a look.
I also have an original notice for the Ganger's Trollies and I photocopied it for Matthew but he doesn't appear to have posted it yet
Something I didn't mention was that a Signalbox was somewhere that could OFFER or ACCEPT trains and it would be listed in the Appendix together with it's opening hours.I have a list of signalboxes for 1880 somewhere - I'll dig it out and have a look.
I also have an original notice for the Ganger's Trollies and I photocopied it for Matthew but he doesn't appear to have posted it yet
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Ricgough
Re: Burdale Tunnel
Any idea what these trolley points or the trolley itself would have looked like?
Have see velocipedes (like bikes) and Whickhams-a-plenty, but I'm still wondering if in this instance they just plugged in for safety reasons or they were powered by batteries or something?
Have see velocipedes (like bikes) and Whickhams-a-plenty, but I'm still wondering if in this instance they just plugged in for safety reasons or they were powered by batteries or something?
Re: Burdale Tunnel
The "Trolley" could be a velocipede, a four wheeled wooden trolley or a small Wickham - anything that was capable of being lifted or rolled off the line.Some of the Wickhams had a small jacked turntable underneath and there were "Trolley Runoffs" beside the track which consisted of two rails laid on their side where the trolley could be wheeled onto.
The "Plug In Post" was a piece of old rail with a 2 pin socket in it.I saw this one west of Bowes on the Stainmore line in 1996.
The system was really simple.The trolley had a flex with a 2 pin plug attached to it by a heavy chain and with a telephone handset.The socket was wired into the telephone line between the signalboxes either side.The idea was that the chain was so short that the only way you could plug the handset into the socket and thus talk to the signalman was to physically remove the trolley from the line.Thus, the signalman knew the trolley was off the line and it was safe to allow trains to run.
Incidentally looking at the instructions for the M&D it was divided into these sections
Scarborough Road to North Grimston with plug posts 1 to 6
North Grimston to Sledmere & Fimber with plug posts 7 to 14
Sledmere & Fimber to Driffield West with plug posts 15 to 23
If you look at the top photo on page 8 of WB's book you can see the trolley shed beside the bridge on the left.
The "Plug In Post" was a piece of old rail with a 2 pin socket in it.I saw this one west of Bowes on the Stainmore line in 1996.
The system was really simple.The trolley had a flex with a 2 pin plug attached to it by a heavy chain and with a telephone handset.The socket was wired into the telephone line between the signalboxes either side.The idea was that the chain was so short that the only way you could plug the handset into the socket and thus talk to the signalman was to physically remove the trolley from the line.Thus, the signalman knew the trolley was off the line and it was safe to allow trains to run.
Incidentally looking at the instructions for the M&D it was divided into these sections
Scarborough Road to North Grimston with plug posts 1 to 6
North Grimston to Sledmere & Fimber with plug posts 7 to 14
Sledmere & Fimber to Driffield West with plug posts 15 to 23
If you look at the top photo on page 8 of WB's book you can see the trolley shed beside the bridge on the left.
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AndyB
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Re: Burdale Tunnel
Going back to the business of the huts, from the photos that we have available, there is certainly no evidence of any overhead wires from the poles which were on the opposite side of the track at both ends. There is no evidence of any conduit for underground cables, and looking at a couple of photos that I have of the interior of the hut at the Wharram end, the door opened inwards and there would have been very little space for anything apart from a chair and writing shelf in front of the stove. So I'm not sure if there would have been space for any batteries. But, given the fact that the huts had windows at both sides for observation, and an oven alongside the fire, sort of indicates that they were built to be relatively comfortable and occupied for long periods? And it certainly looks like both huts were complete, intact and possibly in use until the closure of the line in 1958.
Last edited by AndyB on Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Burdale Tunnel
There were certainly telegraph wires from Burdale station to the tunnel and through the tunnel since the insulator brackets survive inside the tunnel.The original wire through the tunnel which was shown on the map in the PRO was VERY early - as I mentioned, it was the only telegraph wire in the whole of East Yorkshire! Leclanche cells typically produce 1.5 Volts and telegraph wires typically run on a very low voltage so I'm only talking about a couple of batteries, not a massive rack.AndyB wrote:Going back to the business of the huts, from the photos that we have available, there is certainly no evidence of any overhead wires from the poles which were on the opposite side of the track at both ends. There is no evidence of any conduit for underground cables, and looking at a couple of photos that I have of the interior of the hut at the Wharram end, the door opened inwards and there would have been very little space for anything apart from a chair and writing shelf in front of the stove. So I'm not sure if there would have been space for any batteries. But, given the fact that the huts had windows at both sides for observation, and an oven alongside the fire, sort of indicates that they were built to be relatively comfortable and occupied for long periods? And it certainly looks like both huts were complete, intact and possibly in use until the closure of the line in 1958.
As for the huts having windows, well nearly ALL gangers huts have windows and a fireplace! In the days when each short section of the line had it's own Track Gang, these huts were like mini home from homes and some of them even had their own gardens out front because the guys who worked took a pride in their job.
Obviously the huts were intact till at least 1958 - I know the Burdale end one survived for some years after closure. It would have cost effort and money to demolish them and British Rail simply didn't care any more.
